Warm Up Time - 115 Tdi

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Hi,

 

Just getting used to the vehicle and I am wondering whether this is

[Guest ratherhaveanewone]

Is the booster (or aux heater) working; i.e. when the temps below 10 degress and the radiator temp is less that 75 degress is there a jet engine under the rear passenger wheel arch (right hand drive) ?

 

The air (aux heater working) should be hot after a couple of mins

 

Load of topics on this one

 

John

[Ogben Schmutzel]

I thought the aux heater came in at 5 C??

[Guest ratherhaveanewone]

My TIS says 5 but I know others reckon 10; If it doesn't come on then it will take 10 mins + to warm the thing up.

 

Check when its below 5 that way you will know defo if the things bust !

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Ok, thanks, but see what I mean about the differing advice :o

 

Well here's hoping for some cold weather then :lol:

 

Still the fact remains that on relatively mild day (9 C) the temp gauge did not move.

 

Thanks again.

 

Oggy.

[Jeff115]

Seat workshop manual says that booster heater will switch on when ambient (outside) temperature is less than 5 degrees celcius.

 

You should definitely hear the combustion blower (jet turbine sound) of the booster heater when it's switched on.

 

This unit supplements the cool-running VW tdi in cold ambient temperature to boost coolant temperature when the coolant temeperature is under 75 degrees (then part-assist to 85 degrees).

 

Tdi engine will heat up quicker when engine is under load i.e. not stopped in traffic.

 

Weather should be colder this Wednesday/Thursday as you hoped for :lol:

 

Regards,

J.

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Jeff115 - I know that its not posible to be exact but in your opinion should I be seeing some sort of movement of the temp gauge after 3 to 4 miles and ten minutes stop start motoring when the ambient temp is 9 C?

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Also .... (I must stop doing this) .... if it does turn out to be the aux heater how do I test it if the weather is mild and the temp stays over the cut in threshold :lol:

[Ivor]

Definately aux heater not working.

 

Mine packed in a month ago, takes ages to warm up to 90 now, instead of 10 mins.

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Ivor, but according to Jeff115 it would not have been working as the ambient was 9 C but it only cuts in at 5 C :lol:

[gazza007]

Well it's been well above 10 today & it's been running on mine.

These beasts are unpredictable and come on when you don't expect them to, even in early summer. Even when running it can still take about 5 miles or so to get to 90 on the gauge.

I find best way to get warm is to turn fan off for a few mins let the gauge rise then put the re-circ on. :lol:

[GSMGuy]

Aux heater cuts in below 10 degrees +-0.5degrees, as that is the settings and tolerance for the sensor, which is clipped to one of whe wiper arm supports on the NS under the cowl at the base of the windscreen.. Take it out and bridge it or test it in a pot of ice cream... That's what I did to make sure it was ok.. Incidentally I have had mine running at an indicated 11.5 degrees, so there are some variations..

 

Mike

[chromedome]

The diesel engine is very efficient and it does indeed take some time to warm up because of this efficiency.

 

The aux heater was added because of this to keep the passengers happy.

[Masked Marauder]

Take the tempersture sensor off and put a 10amp mini-fuse in it's place. Once the coolant has warmed up the booster will then switch off.

[Jeff115]

Hi Ogben,

Obviously loads of activity on this topic after I retired last night. :o

 

To answer your questions, in my opinion, as best I can:

 

First of all, it's not possible to

get the definitive answer

as far as the Shalaxy is concerned. :D

for example Seat workshop manual for the additional AKA auxilliary AKA booster heater says that it will switch on when ambient temperature is less than 5 degrees celcius (assuming that heater is working :lol: , coolant temperature less than 75 degrees etc....) As GSMGuy says this in reality is actually when less than 10 degrees and probably ballpark anyway.

 

If you want to verify if the booster heater is working then bypass the ambient temperature sensor as MM suggests. GSMGuy described its location on the LH wiper fixed arm in a previous post.

IMO you should definitely hear the noise of the air blower in the unit under the second row near side when the unit is on.

 

Secondly,

Can anyone give me an idea whether this lack of movement of the temperature gauge for that sort of trip is normal please?

 

I understand that the tdi engine runs quite cool (hence the need for the auxillary heater) and IMO it will heat up quicker when under load/being driven rather than stopped/idling/crawling in traffic.

Hence I would not consider it abnormal if after

Distance of 3 to 4 miles and takes about 10 minutes, all in traffic....temperature gauge had not budged and the air coming from the heater was only luke warm.

 

If your temperature gauge moves when you're driving the car for 10 mins / 3 or 4 miles then I would not worry about it. You could try and increase load by switching on a few accessories e.g. heated screen, air-con (on warm :( ). You could also try recirculating air as Gazza suggests.

 

Hope that this helps,

Jeff.

[Jeff115]

I wonder if anyone has considered using / adapting the booster heater to drive the car when in traffic (like the Toyota Prius) :lol:

 

Now there's a thought, hmmm....

 

Later,

J

[GSMGuy]

Eh????

 

Mike

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Yeh - I don't understand that either Jeff115.

 

Thanks for all the answers. I have concluded that the Aux Heater is not functioning. There is no smell, no noise, just nothing!!! Could that still be the glow plug or is it worse?? :o

 

Also ... in my manual it says that with a diesel engine the aux heater will function when the engine is running AND the ambient temperature is less than 5 C OR the coolant temperature is below 75 C.

 

The key here is the AND/OR statements meaning that for the aux heater to be running I reckon the following must be satisfied.

 

1) The Engine must be running :(

 

AND one of the following must be satisfied

 

2) The ambient temperature is be less than 5 C

OR

3) The coolant temperature is below 75 C.

 

Thus it should run on start-up

[gazza007]

Are you still under warranty or just out?

Even if your out SEAT should contribute if faulty.

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Just out I'm afraid. Picked up the car from an auction a week ago. Do you reckon that I'm in with a chance of the SEAT dealer fixing it free then? :lol:

[Jeff115]

Hi Ogben,

Yes, sorry for wandering off track. Wife and colleagues accuse me of it all the time, must be a bi-polar thing :(

 

Ok, specifically,

start sequence for aux/additonal/booster heater

1. positive voltage (11.5+) from fuse board;

2. positive feed from alternator (confirms that engine running;

3. ambient temperature less than 5 degrees celcius

4. coolant temperature less than 75 degrees celcius, initially;

 

then flame monitor must tell control unit that we have booster ignition within 130 seconds otherwise automatic second start attempt; if flame does not burn normally after second start then heater remains off until engine is started again;

 

Start sequence interrupt if:

a. flame monitor registers that flame is not burning normally after 130 seconds OR

b. overheating sensor detects temperature greater than 125 degrees celcius OR

c. temperature difference between temperature and overheating sensor exceeds 15 degrees celcius OR

d. control unit detects a fault

 

I believe that ten faults can be logged but only last five are retained as DTC's. Auxilliary heater controller can be interrogated by VAG1551/VAG-COM on address 18.

 

I've read that auxilliary heater can be dis-assembled. Mine has a fault with the Combustion-Air Blower and I'm going to try to strip unit, clean out etc. and re-assemble when

1. I source a gasket kit (probably difficult)

11. I get coolant as some loss expected. Bleeding requires jacking up the front of the car and is probably hassly

111. I get some time

 

Then gain, maybe not as we've survived last Winter without it :o

 

Meantime, dealer has said that he'll get a price for the blower unit but I don't believe that he'll get back to me. I see that mine is a similar age to yours so doubt that either of us will swing it under warranty but Gazza007 did...

 

I swear I'll be briefer next time :lol:

Later,

J.

[gazza007]

As Jeff said Ogben. I was 9 months out of warranty. Go & see your local dealer in the first instance to identify the problem & see if they will sort it out with customer services.

If not call CS yourself. I reckon the worst you can get is a contribution.

I needed a complete new unit,

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Crikey

[Jeff115]

Hi Oggy,

 

Test the glow plug as described by GSMGuy here

 

http://www.fordgalaxy.org.uk/ford/index.ph...wtopic=3623&hl=

 

as the plug may not be the cause of the fault.

 

By bridging the ambient temperature sensor you'll also rule that out as the only cause of the fault but the booster heater will not come on if there's another fault or if > 5 faults faults registered in heater control unit.

 

GSMGuy/Mike also describes how to test and bypass the ambient temperature sensor in the above link or just do a search on the 'helpful' mans handle,

Later,

Jeff.

[Ogben Schmutzel]

Hi,

 

Sorry for not getting back sooner but I am away a the moment and opportunities to get on line are limited.

 

Jus thought that I would let you know that I took the advice to have a word with the dealer being as the car was only just out of warranty and they have agreed to look at the